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Author Topic: Modcraft community  (Read 27508 times)

Method

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2015, 01:28:58 pm »
Quote from: "schlumpf"
Back in 2009 I tried taking "tutorial requests". It sadly didn't take off. I'd be happy with a place where people request information on a topic, as neutral and short as possible. As stated above, I don't exactly like tutorials. I'm not quite sure about what format is the right one though. Possibly something wiki-ish with commenting inline.

I liked the format of the Noggit guide already here on Modcraft, segmented, book-like, episodic tutorials. They are clear to follow and clearly visible.

We should have sections for:

1)  [Tutorial Requests] where people make requests for tutorials.
2)  [Tutorials] where tutorials are delivered.
3) maybe we could have [Paid Tutorials] where posters release the tutorial for a small fee, to make writing the tutorial worth their while.

 Whether this should be a combined tutorial board or seperated between boards I don't really know. Retro-porting might have their own retro tutorials, whereas Serverside has their serverside tutorials, so in that respect, a unified tutorial board doesn't make sense, unless that unified tutorial board is also sectioned.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »
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schlumpf

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 02:36:42 pm »
Quote from: "Method"
Quote from: "schlumpf"
Back in 2009 I tried taking "tutorial requests". It sadly didn't take off. I'd be happy with a place where people request information on a topic, as neutral and short as possible. As stated above, I don't exactly like tutorials. I'm not quite sure about what format is the right one though. Possibly something wiki-ish with commenting inline.

I liked the format of the Noggit guide already here on Modcraft, segmented, book-like, episodic tutorials. They are clear to follow and clearly visible.

We should have sections for:

1)  [Tutorial Requests] where people make requests for tutorials.
2)  [Tutorials] where tutorials are delivered.
3) maybe we could have [Paid Tutorials] where posters release the tutorial for a small fee, to make writing the tutorial worth their while.

 Whether this should be a combined tutorial board or seperated between boards I don't really know. Retro-porting might have their own retro tutorials, whereas Serverside has their serverside tutorials, so in that respect, a unified tutorial board doesn't make sense, unless that unified tutorial board is also sectioned.


Writing a book like tutorial is hard, overkill, a huge effort, … Not what I'd suggest if we want more tutorials. Also, huge long tutorials are huge and long. If I just wanted to know how to add a skybox, I'm lost in this huge thing. Tbh, I don't even know if it covers that.

There is a tutorials subforum for each forum.

I more and more think that a forum is a horrible thing.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »

stoneharry

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2015, 02:58:35 pm »
Quote from: "Method"
but we have so many other aspects to WoW modding, like everything I've already mentioned. Model swapping, npc pathing, cinematic creation, even basic addon creation, we have nothing near an adequate amount of information. In some areas we have NO or LITTLE information.

What? Why do you need information on this stuff?

Model swapping = common sense. You learn how the MPQ structure works and then it's a piece of piss.

NPC Pathing = a complicated issue that changes a lot. Emulators currently use variations of A*. You cannot give a guide on this - this is something you need to study in your own time, which Google can help you with.

Basic addon creation = A million guides for this already exist on the Internet. That's how I learnt.

So everything you listed there I completely disagree with. We don't need tutorials for tutorials sake and there's no need to copy stuff over here if there are dedicated sites for these specific areas.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »

Kaev

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2015, 07:46:30 am »
Quote from: "stoneharry"
Quote from: "Method"
but we have so many other aspects to WoW modding, like everything I've already mentioned. Model swapping, npc pathing, cinematic creation, even basic addon creation, we have nothing near an adequate amount of information. In some areas we have NO or LITTLE information.

What? Why do you need information on this stuff?

Model swapping = common sense. You learn how the MPQ structure works and then it's a piece of piss.

NPC Pathing = a complicated issue that changes a lot. Emulators currently use variations of A*. You cannot give a guide on this - this is something you need to study in your own time, which Google can help you with.

Basic addon creation = A million guides for this already exist on the Internet. That's how I learnt.

So everything you listed there I completely disagree with. We don't need tutorials for tutorials sake and there's no need to copy stuff over here if there are dedicated sites for these specific areas.

I'd love to have many short tutorials on one site instead of searching on google and may fight very outdated tutorials in really bad english. I also like to learn stuff in a short, fast way instead of experementing with everything i want to do. It's like programming, the solution might be very easy, but sometimes you just can't find it alone and may give up sooner or later.

I like schlumpf's idea of a own site with a tutorial system or something instead of a forum. Maybe there won't be a big difference, but it feels completely different. At least for me. :)
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »

Steff

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2015, 09:03:53 am »
Tutorial requests is a good Point. THis way others could pic one and start. I will have this in mind during rework of the site structure. In the moment we work on the move to teh new root. If this is done I will start a discussion and work the new structure of the site aout with you.

To the tutorial thing. I think it is not possible to explain every single pice of modding in Detail. But what we Need is a set of tutorial explain the Basic ways of doing Things with an real working exaple.

Like how to use 010 and templates or a DBC editong guide with some examples. As there is the documentation on wowDev Wiki everyone can then do stuff.

I also got in the meanwhile 2 requests from People willing to do some tutorial work in the future.

I also search for some realy motivated People for Moderation. A Team of 3 till 4 People. So if you have some funded wow skills and think a moderator post is yours. Ask me on skype. > Project.modcraft

Updated the main post with:

- Expanding the tutorial with general needed stuff.
- Create a tutorial request board. Perahaps where every request is a poll. So tutorial writers can see what the community needs most.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »
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stoneharry

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2015, 01:41:09 pm »
Quote from: "Kaev"
Quote from: "stoneharry"
Quote from: "Method"
but we have so many other aspects to WoW modding, like everything I've already mentioned. Model swapping, npc pathing, cinematic creation, even basic addon creation, we have nothing near an adequate amount of information. In some areas we have NO or LITTLE information.

What? Why do you need information on this stuff?

Model swapping = common sense. You learn how the MPQ structure works and then it's a piece of piss.

NPC Pathing = a complicated issue that changes a lot. Emulators currently use variations of A*. You cannot give a guide on this - this is something you need to study in your own time, which Google can help you with.

Basic addon creation = A million guides for this already exist on the Internet. That's how I learnt.

So everything you listed there I completely disagree with. We don't need tutorials for tutorials sake and there's no need to copy stuff over here if there are dedicated sites for these specific areas.

I'd love to have many short tutorials on one site instead of searching on google and may fight very outdated tutorials in really bad english. I also like to learn stuff in a short, fast way instead of experementing with everything i want to do. It's like programming, the solution might be very easy, but sometimes you just can't find it alone and may give up sooner or later.

I like schlumpf's idea of a own site with a tutorial system or something instead of a forum. Maybe there won't be a big difference, but it feels completely different. At least for me. :)

I really hope this doesn't become a community where we attempt to give tutorials on how to program. This is the direction you want to take. We really DO NOT need tutorials on addon development. There are dedicated sites that will always be way more up to date than any place like here.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »

Method

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2015, 05:12:43 pm »
Quote from: "stoneharry"

I really hope this doesn't become a community where we attempt to give tutorials on how to program. This is the direction you want to take. We really DO NOT need tutorials on addon development. There are dedicated sites that will always be way more up to date than any place like here.

I agree with you Harry, we already have sites for learning programming, we shouldn't be one.

Everything on Modcraft should be WoW-specific.

We shouldn't need to teach basic lua to people.

Addon development isn't too high on the list though, the biggest thing I'd like to see is some effort to introduce basic "Get started" structured guides, that's the main thing that'll get more people interested and willing to explore WoW modding more.
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Kaev

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2015, 07:53:44 pm »
I never said that i want programming tutorials here.
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Steff

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2015, 04:50:00 am »
noone said this ;)

but a baskc lua xml is not wrong becaus it is needed for interface development.  and so very wow modding related.  perhaps an introduction that people understand that the wow interface is a big addon and then some links to resources and external tutorials.

and yes a site listing and grouping tutorials will definitely come.
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stoneharry

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2015, 02:12:30 pm »
Quote from: "Steff"
noone said this ;)

but a baskc lua xml is not wrong becaus it is needed for interface development.  and so very wow modding related.  perhaps an introduction that people understand that the wow interface is a big addon and then some links to resources and external tutorials.

and yes a site listing and grouping tutorials will definitely come.

All that needs to be said is:

"The GlueXML and FrameXML handles the entire interface for the game and behaves in the same manner as traditional WoW AddOns. Here are some links on AddOn development:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/World_of_Warcraft_API
http://wowprogramming.com/docs"

I mean - we don't need a tutorial on Lua. XML. What an addon is. Etc. This is all basic stuff that should just be easy to go away and do yourself. If you can't then a quick 5 second Google will answer any questions on the subject. We should not be trying to give tutorials for such simple stuff. We will not do it as well and it just adds bulk where it is not needed.
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TheBuG

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2015, 11:44:48 am »
The issue is not the (lack of) tutorials, it's the lack of (motivated) people. We haven't seen a lot of interesting newcomers (no offense). It's not the lack of tools, it's the availability of (free) tools for a lot of other games/engines. WoW is simply not interesting enough to mod.
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Steff

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2015, 10:52:14 am »
@stoneharry: That´s why I said a short entry tutorial would be good. Also some words are needed. Locals as destination patch for Interface stuff. You Need patched wow.exe for Interface changes. The strings file. And a good list of resources.

@TheBug: For me it is still the most interesting platform. As there is (as fare I know) no working, free and good looking mmo framework out there. The biggest Problem we have is that it is a mmo. Modding it in a big way is much work. Most People just don´t have the power to stay on such a Job. Or even begin it :) As we all that are a bit motivated have learned during the last years.

Many People make promises but you don´t get something finished most time.
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iindigo

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2015, 07:33:05 pm »
Even if an open MMO framework were available, getting bits like combat flow, character animation, etc to the point of being as smooth as they are in any WoW client (even when paired with a reverse-engineered server) is something that would take years. In fact, it may never be as smooth.
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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2015, 01:04:35 am »
I think that the forum just got pretty complicated and is really confusing. Im with you for the new design, but I'm still pretty used to the style of this forum and it's not really bad, though we should make it better organized.

Code: [Select]
- Maybe few proper moderators that could help maintain some order and structure in the whole forum. (I'm willng to help with this one)

Every sub-forum (Level design/texturing etc.) should have a Sticky with Up to Date tools, so people don't have to go through pages and pages of request and questions before finding the needed tool (mostly out of date..). Sometimes I don't even know what I'm looking for and if it even exists or has been addressed.
I'm talking about you, "Resources and Tools"  :evil:  it's one big mess for me.

Code: [Select]
- Perhaps if a tool is tested and working properly, move it to sticky.
- Make a general storage where a moderator would store all the up to date and tested (approved) tools. Really some download links to tools like FuTa are dead for months.


I know I may sound very naive, but a little cooperation between all the developers would be great. Like when someone comes up with a useful thing, it ends up being in a thread that is lost somewhere in the forum or is broken into more threads with dead-links. I think that developers should be more team-like, trying to make less tools but more complex.

Code: [Select]
- The thing is: I come up with an idea for a great but small tool. Instead of releasing this, I would try to communicate with someone that has already made a tool in this area of modding and try to merge it together  into a single and more powerful tool.

To World Building, which is my favorite part of the whole WoW modding and an essential process in many of the projects here. I miss a tool or process where I could create a simple heightmap layout of my island or whatever I'm creating. I know this has been on the table for a long time, but I think that the whole process of preparing a custom zone with all the dbc editing and starting fuck-ups is really discouraging people from starting a project.


I agree with schlumpf on automation. We should make simple tasks automated to save time, we are all doing this in our spare time and the more we waste, the more demotivation comes.


Maybe, when a proper tool base with tutorials is established, we can start doing some monthly challenges to keep people encouraged and motivated. This would also lead to more simple and frequent additions with something actually completed (many people tend to start big project and failing after realizing it is too much for them)

Example of a challenge: Make night elf ruins on 4 ADTs. Make use of specific tilesets.

A winner could be given a forum badge and a place within ONE COMBINED PROJECT, where leaders would use these creations to form a single World. I know people have different tastes but if they had a chance to contribute to a single goal in their own way without doing the whole project alone, it would really lead into something epic.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 am by Admin »

Steff

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Re: Modcraft community
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2015, 09:40:28 pm »
the resources will get an moxerated sticky with list of tools.  the most stuff you need is also in the modding pack.

i wil move this to a git repo in jte future.  so people can hild tools up to date.
one for wotlk and one for wod tools.

also neo is exactly what you asked for.
it should lead to one tool for all wow related files.  also contains assistends to automat jobs.  like add a map.
i hope that i get neo the way that no tutorials are needed.

the problem we as moderators have is that we are only 3 people. some help from the community would be realy nice.
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